TASS: As Tom says: it's better to STOP USING HIS DATA

[Sebastian Otero <varsao@fullzero.com.ar>]

Dear colleagues,

This e-mail is long. Feel free to stop reading it right now if you don't
want to get involved or if you don't want to fall asleep before you finish.
People who want to find out more on this trend and what has led us here,
please check the e-mail archives from the TASS and AAVSO mailing lists.

Tom Droege wrote:

> If the people on this list refrain from mentioning tass or using tass data
> I will refrain from making posts here.
>
> When the TASS survey is misrepresented, then I feel obliged to defend it.

..........
.........

I guess that's already enough.

Do you all feel the same as I feel?
We all should say TASS data is pretty good and usable as it is. No matter
what it really is.
The data is what it is. Anyone willing to use it would find what those of us
who have tried found. Any try to improve things or make Tom Droege be more
responsible for his own data have collided against a hurricane of insanity
and false accusations.

I was probably the only one defending his crappy data when most of my
colleagues had already given up using it.
Actually I was currently using TASS data, after my own cleaning up of the
whole mess when possible, for a future paper on eclipsers.
But now I see how stupid I was. I can't use data from someone who publicly
urge people to stop using his own data!!!
I can't believe what I am reading!! He is creating his own elite of Tom's
fans to keep going!!
OK, Tom, don't worry, keep collecting data for noone to use it. Great. That
is science. Of course, if you say so it MUST be.

For TASS people:

Is TASS = Tom Droege? If it is, I am sorry for you. If not, take the time to
read all the postings of the last couple of months and how it all went and
make your own judgements but I think that the TASS circle is closing and
you'd better be safe outside.
The TASS idea is great but his leader is leading it nowhere. It's a shame.
THE TASS DATABASE IS NOT TRUSTABLE.
I know you can do very important things but are being carried in a wrong
direction because you're becoming part of an elite with no credit or trust.
It's a shame that one person might have generated this feeling among such a
huge number of people in our community. And this is not lip service, I say
what I say because variable star people are not so many and we get in
contact with each other privately continuously. We exchange experiences,
opinions, researches...


""""""OK, I really understand what is going on.  You all are terrified that
surveys like tass are going to replace AAVSO and what it does.  They
are.""""""""

Oh, it's not your survey which is going to be able to replace visual
observations, be sure, pal.

In the last couple of months, a terrible mess in the database was found by
Patrick Wils and myself when error dates were discovered. Of course firstly
Tom denied the evidence. Then called it an assumption when it was a fact.
After some discussion on the TASS mailing list and a correction (it is funny
how a thing that is not a proven fact can actually be corrected) I found
that a whole month had again a date error. Tom always says there is no proof
for anything and that it all is a conspiracy. But the mistakes stand out
easily when you use the data. Tom probably don't use it and he is too busy
breaking his own records of millions of observations per night. No matter
what the data actually is or what the dates are. It doesn't even matter that
the scatter is worse than 0.2 mag. He will probaly state that a planetary
transit with a 0.00000001 mag amplitude might surely be detected by TASS
;-)))
Anyway, the second error disaster was reported behind the courtains to avoid
more problems. Of course, when something is not good for TASS the silence is
never broken by Tom. But it's no use because he has to raise his voice again
speaking of visual people, comparing his "work" with that from others and
all those blind attitudes based on a distorted vision of reality.

TOM DROEGE: don't even dare comparing yourself and your database with
Grzegorz Pojmanski's ASAS survey. Or the NSVS. Or any other. All the other
sky surveys don't suffer from the problems you have so shut up and stop
lying.
Take a look at the IBVS site and you might find hundreds of variable stars
discovered or solved and lightcurves made with those observations.
Your survey might give a decent dataset or something like the .gif sent a
couple of hours ago
(http://www.tass-survey.org/tass/mailarchive/2004-08/gif00000.gif)
A lot of people, from AAVSO or not, visual observers or CCDers, it doesn't
make a difference, all of us are working with them and don't complain about
big surveys.
Visual people don't claim to be better or worse than TASS. Actually visual
people know their limitations. Visual observers are far more responsible
than you are. You don't give a damn about the quality of the data you are
making available and then make blind defenses of it and say (only when
needed) that TASS is just an experiment. People know what they can expect
from a visual dataset, noone knows what to expect from TASS.
Maybe you are creating another religion: believe in TASS or not. Use ir or
leave it. Don't question it. And you speak of science....

The variable star community has opened their arms to sky surveys. Even
yours, but the careless data and incredible silly way you speak of your
perfect project is what ended up with the general distrust on TASS data.
TASS data is not being used even for visual charts!! Mmmmmh, all the
variable star community has gone insane and we have all developed a
TASS-fear with no reason at all?
You spend your time harassing the observers who are actually the ones who
are supposed to use your gold mine !!

PEOPLE, don't let this kind of persons use you anymore.
I was just about to make that mistake and publish some papers using TASS
data. I will refrain from doing that as Tom Droege asked. My colleagues will
now be relieved because TASS has become a headache in the variable star
field instead of a resource.
If the data can't be criticized or improved or whatever and if false claims
need to be posted continuosly, those data providers can't be trusted.
What makes the data useful is the fact that the analysts use it and they get
results.

Finally, thanks to the ASAS team, the NSVS team for making the big sky
surveys possible and all their data available, and thanks to all the
observers, visual, PEP, CCD or whatever, that make this variable star
community a fair game scenary. We may agree or disageee but there's space
for everyone. HOWEVER, some sign their own resignation to this community
from the very moment they open their mouths.

My best wishes to all,
Sebastian.